By Bojana Sutvic
French Ambassador to BiH Claire Bodonyi said that BiH has to keep fighting terrorism decisively, which means that “it has to take into account its own weaknesses.” In her words, there is also a need for BiH to engage more in the fight against weapons smuggling.
In an interview with Bosnia Today, Bodonyi said that French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve is interested in meeting his Bosnian counterpart Dragan Mektic.
BT: After the attacks in Paris, Sarajevo and other cities, the awareness of terrorism has changed, and the countries have realized that they must do much more to fight this evil. In what way society as a whole must engage in the fight against terrorism and radicalization? What measures need to be taken in this regard?
– Terrorism has hit the whole world. We had terrorist attacks in Paris, Sarajevo… Russian plane was destroyed in a terrorist act. And we almost forgot Pakistan where hundreds of children died in a terrorist attack.
The fight against terrorism is an international challenge. It is necessary to reinforce cooperation between peoples and states because terrorists do not recognize and do not respect borders. It is essential that countries work together and share information.
On the other hand, it is the task for a society as a whole. Education it is very important. Everything starts with education, with what we teach a child and what patterns of behavior we offer him: openness, tolerance… After parents, educational institutions should continue working with children on this issue.
In France, we have worked a lot on the reform of curricula. After the terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine, we realized that we need to review education policy. This applies to schools and universities but also various other institutions that are related to education: the ministries of health, youth and sport, which are all part of the education system.
When it comes to Bosnia and Herzegovina, there is a great danger in this regard. We have to ask ourselves what we leave to future generations. If there is segregation in schools, if there are two schools under one roof, schools that are separated, people who do not communicate with each other… that opens the room for ignorance and lack of knowledge about the others. That, further, leads to fear of others and fear leads to violence.
This is something that the BiH Government must address, which implies a lot of dialogue: with the authorities, teachers, parents… It is, indeed, a challenge for the whole society and the society as a whole must tackle this problem.
BT: It seems that BiH is one of the states that are quite exposed to terrorism. How do you see the position of BiH in this regard? Are the radicals from BiH risk for security globally?
– Bosnia and Herzegovina, unfortunately, is presented through a lot of the media, including French media, as a risky country. This is also due to lack of knowledge. Western countries do not know Bosnia and Herzegovina well enough and, in this case again, the lack of knowledge about something generates certain fears. There are also information about the village with a Wahhabi community. That makes some people scared.
As you know, BiH Security Minister Dragan Mektic is determined to address this issue and this situation must be clarified. The BiH has to keep fighting terrorism decisively, which means that it has to take into account its own weaknesses. Minister Mektic will chair a forum of interior ministers of the Balkans and EU countries to be held in Sarajevo on 7 and 8 December.
There is also a need for BiH to engage more in the fight against weapons smuggling because that is also a big problem. It’s not the same thing as terrorism, but these two issues are related. I think that BiH authorities are aware of the need to do more against terrorism and the smuggling of weapons, and I believe they will get involved in international cooperation on these issues.
BT: There is fear that these developments may contribute to the stigmatization of Muslims in general across Europe. How to prevent that?
– It is a human reaction. We should fight against this instinctive fear. Terrorism and Islam are contradictory things. Terrorists claim to act in the name of Allah, but there is nothing spiritual there. Those are groups who are fighting for economic and geostrategic interests. They want the wealth and political power in certain territories. This is something that has to be explained again and again.
After the attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine, there were anti-Muslim protests and we have stepped up protection of mosques. After the November attacks, there were fortunately not many anti-Muslim incidents in France. I believe that we need to work on getting to know each other better. It must be explained to the people what Islam is, and what the foundations of this religion are.
We’ve seen a reaction of Reis-ul-Ulema Husein Kavazovic that was not only symbolic but also very genuine and powerful. He very strongly condemned the attacks and very clearly called on all imams to explain, during the prayer, that there is nothing in the Quran that can justify terrorist acts. I believe that a great advantage for BiH is the education of imams. Imams in BiH are intellectuals who have graduated from a good university. This is something that France could be inspired by.
BT: BiH has recently taken some steps forward in terms of progress toward the EU, and is preparing to submit the application for EU membership. Do you believe that this could be the beginning of a new era of relations between Sarajevo and Brussels?
– The road is long. An initiative of the UK and Germany was launched last year to bring a new dynamic to the progress of BiH in order to enter the EU as soon as possible. All EU countries have supported the initiative, and BiH politicians committed to work and strive to produce the results. Reform Agenda is on the table and BiH authorities at all levels work on its implementation.
France has supported the work of FBiH Prime Minister Fadil Novalic on the reform agenda. He visited Paris. We wanted to show that when a government is committed to the tasks it assumed, it is a reliable partner for us. That’s why we invited Mr Novalic to Paris to meet with Secretary of State for European Affairs.
The process is progressing. The state of BiH, the FBiH and the RS say that they have improved their coordination in the implementation of reforms, which is good. But the work has to continue, it is not finished. Candidacy is not the ultimate goal after which all will stop. Candidacy is a crucial issue but it has to come naturally, as a result of concrete progress. BiH needs to become a real member of the EU. France’s President Francois Hollande pointed that out two years ago, stressing that the place of the Balkan countries, including BiH, is in the EU.
You have to work on it – progress depends on your commitment. EU countries expect to see substantial progress. What is sure: BiH will not have obstacles from our part on that road. We are waiting for you, for your progress. EU and EU Delegation support BiH but your institutions have to work.
BT: RS authorities insist on a referendum on the state Court and Prosecutor’s Office, while the EU thinks that the move undermines the integrity of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Will the EU or its member states react if the referendum is held?
– You need to separate the two things. When it comes to the referendum announced by the RS National Assembly, we have expressed our position clearly. EU Council and Foreign Affairs Council were very clear: this is something that destabilizes Bosnia and harms its integrity.
On the other hand, we all agree that the judicial system in BiH is not satisfactory. But it’s not just justice system at the state level that does not meet EU standards; it applies to all levels, including RS and FBiH. This is why the EU a few years ago proposed a structural dialogue on the judiciary. The goal was to encourage different levels of the justice system to exchange information and increase their standard with the help of the EU. This dialogue had been terminated because the participants from BiH were not attending the meetings. A solution was offered but not accepted.
The proposal is now on the table again. The dialogue is launched again, at least on a technical level. The work continues and we’ll see if there will be improvement in the judiciary.
BT: Parties from RS have said they will disobey the decision of the BiH Constitutional Court regarding RS Day. They also announced the referendum on the issue and possible withdrawal from the state institutions. Does this mean further deterioration of the already poor political climate in Bosnia and Herzegovina?
– It’s a very recent development which has upset the public and we’re still under impressions. This issue should be considered calmly and objectively, which is still not the case. We should take some time to think about that.
There are several aspects. First, it should be recalled that the Dayton agreement is very clear when it comes to the Constitutional Court. Second, I did not see the decision and therefore I cannot talk about something I do not know in detail. Third, if there is a problem, it must be addressed. It will not be possible to do it with aggressive statements but only through dialogue and the search for a solution that will suit everyone. The best thing we can do is to read the decision in detail, consider it in the light of the Constitution and try to find the appropriate solution for all.
BT: BiH Security Minister Dragan Mektic told a newspaper that French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve will visit BiH in December. Can you confirm that information and what will be the main topic during his meeting with BiH officials?
– Our plan was for two of them to meet in Paris where Mektic recently attended a conference on military and civilian security. Minister Mektic was very interested in the mechanisms that France introduced with the aim of de-radicalization, such as certain legislative changes. He met with French officials to discuss the issues. A meeting with French Minister of Security was scheduled as part of the visit. However, due to the attacks in Paris the minister’s agenda was changed, and the meeting could not take place.
Minister Cazeneuve is also very interested in meeting Mektic. The main topics are the fight against terrorism and the fight against weapons smuggling and organized crime. These are the main topics that Balkan countries must deal with.
We already have experience of a joint cooperation. Investigators and judges from Bosnia and Herzegovina and France worked together and busted a criminal gang which forced people of BiH origin to work as pickpockets and even sex slaves. That is kind of cooperation we want to talk about and see how we can extend it in other fields.
This meeting will happen, but I cannot confirm the date. Minister Cazeneuve is definitely interested in meeting his Bosnian counterpart.
BT: Conference on climate opened in Paris, which some say is the last chance to save the planet. Do you believe people will understand the importance of this issue?
– Conference of the United Nations in Paris had a great response in the media. Heads of state, signatories of the UN Convention on Climate Change, came to Paris for 15 days of negotiations that will precede the universal agreement of all countries. This agreement will be binding for all countries, in accordance with whether they are polluters with heavy industry, or country that has yet to enter the development phase and carry out energy transition.
It is an expansive process and there will be a lot of negotiations on the establishment of financial models. The aim is to reduce the level of global warming, which is huge. You have seen floods in Bosnia last year. There is no country that will not be affected by this problem. More than 90 percent of experts agree that these problems are caused by human activity. We must all work together on this issue because it is a problem that will affect all of us if we do not find a solution.
But that can also be an opportunity: it can create new jobs. Efforts against global warming lead to new energy models; this leads to innovation which is always a creator of jobs. Especially young generation must understand that the future is in the preservation of the planet and not only through the challenge of survival, but also through the challenge of reviving the economy. I hope that the people in BiH will understand this message.